Geesh, can this guy ever reach an end to a sentence? I couldn't take anymore and looked at the progress bar and it was only about a third of the way through. Can someone give us the Reader's Digest version?
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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Spirit Channeling at Wallkill's Bethel
by Marie33 inlook what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
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Why does God allow animals to suffer? Does God care about animals? What does the Watchtower teach about this?
by defender of truth inthe following article will address these questions, and attempt to answer them.. after helping jwfacts with his page on animal suffering, i decided to write this article.. it is mainly aimed at helping jehovahs witnesses and other believers in god to think about the issue, as well as the apparent contradictions in watchtower teaching.. thanks must go to jwfacts for the encouragement, and giving me permission to use an image from his page and to use some of the quotes.. also, thankyou to cofty for general moral support.. please let me know what you think everybody, and feel free to reproduce any part or all of the article on any other website, just post and let me know that you've used it on your site please.. (i'd appreciate it if anyone could post to tell me they found a point in here useful, it would encourage me to keep going).. okay, here it is:.
why does god allow animal suffering?.
does it trouble you to see animals in pain?.
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Cold Steel
Defender » All available evidence suggests that animals gain nothing. They suffer, then die. That's it. God doesn't prevent their suffering, despite having limitless power.
Define "all available evidence." I believe that all living things are comprised of material bodies and animating spirits. I also believe the atonement covers animals as well as humans, meaning that all animals will be fully resurrected and exist eternally. I've never bought into the Adventist doctrine of soul sleeping, and just as people look waxy and unnatural when the spirit departs from it, animals also tend to look unrealistic after they die. I'm very much against making animals suffer, even for the benefit of humans.
By the way, this topic is about animal suffering, but you keep diverting onto humans.
In my initial response, I highlighted the portions I was responding to. When man fell, however it happened, animals fell too. I'm simply pointing out that man and animals are going through the life cycle together. Both we and animals are going through it together. I don't believe Earth is the only world God has created, but it's only my belief. No one can prove anything, of course. But if there is a God, and I'm convinced there is, there's a purpose to everything He does. And as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15, God creates on numerous levels, celestial and terrestrial, and he creates using differing intelligences and glories. To think there would be a God, a grand designer, but no purpose to life is unthinkable. There's either a God or there is not. If not, then none of this makes any difference. But if so, there has to be a purpose.
Why so many Jehovah's Witnesses, (who preach about a loving God) ignore this injustice, is beyond me.
Me, too. In fact, there are many Christians who believe that animals do not possess spirits that live on after death. Use them, abuse them, mistreat them and destroy them. There's no purpose to their lives, they say. I've got a much loved cat who's on his way out with a liver ailment. We've got a great relationship going and if I didn't think I'd see him again, I'd be crushed. The more one knows animals (as in really knows) animals, the more one should viscerally know that animals and people either share a purpose. Or they share annihilation at death. Frankly, if Cofty is right, that there's no purpose to any of this and that when we die, we die, I'd rather just go now. I can't recall who said it, but to think the three most common ways we die is marriage, a 40-hour work week or a revolver is too fatalistic for me.
Making up a reason with no basis may make you feel better. It doesn't address any of the issues about animal suffering that I have raised.
Well, I never said I was making it up. I have reasons for believing the way I do, but then we all have reasons for believing what we believe.
The God of the Bible has needlessly inflicted suffering. Read the Bible.
Ever see the TV show, GET SMART? Max gets captured by Kaos and is programmed to kill the Chief when they play their weekly game of chess, which Max always loses. He's told when he hears the word "Checkmate" to draw his pistol and kill the person who said it. So they're at the Men's Club playing chess and the Chief, true to form, beats Max. But instead of saying, "Checkmate" the Chief says, "Well, that's another one, Max!" Max begins examining the board when the Kaos agent, disguised as the waiter, says, "Checkmate! Aren't you going to say, 'Checkmate'?" At which point Max pulls his gun and shoots the waiter dead.
"Max," the Chief yells. "Why did you do that?"
Max looks at his gun, then down at the waiter, then he looks at the Chief. "I don't know," he says, "but I have a feeling I better have a darn good reason!"
I have read the Bible, and I can't believe that with all the suffering in the world that there's got to be a good reason. We may not know the full story, but when we do it will all make sense. For now I can say with confidence that nothing we suffer here on Earth is of any lasting harm.
Most wild animals cannot ask for help.
They shouldn't have to. Animals are a part of the stewardship of man and man will answer for any cruelty he inflicts on animals just as he is answerable to what he inflicts on his fellow man.
"If one is a Christian, one usually concedes that man doesn't have the whole picture"... is just avoiding the issues. Avoiding the contradictions in your own belief in a loving God. I don't believe in the Bible as being divinely inspired.
But that's part of being a Christian. If you're NOT a Christian, fair enough. Life is a crap shoot and then you die. If one is a Christian, however, one admits he doesn't have all the missing pieces. And there's little we can do about it until we have the opportunity to ask the Lord for ourselves. It's not a very satisfying answer, but we can't change it.
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Bad experiences in waking someone up?
by Fred Flintstone ini mean, is it advisable to try to wake a friend up?
what about the risk of he/she falling into depression?
anger?
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Cold Steel
It's a tough question if he's presently happy. You can just let him stay and he'll most likely figure it out when Armageddon doesn't happen, or you can attempt to enlighten him, in which case he will either be crushed with nothing left to replace it with or he will esteem you as an enemy and an apostate.
Is your friend married to a JW wife? How about his parents -- are they JW? You probably don't want to break up a family, right? If he's married, let TTATT hit them at the same time down the road. Don't muck up his life or his marriage.
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Has Politics Affected Your Friendships?
by minimus ini’ve read that some families are not looking forward to spending time with their families and friends during the holidays because of their opposing political views.. isn’t that just ridiculous?
?.
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Cold Steel
I've never seen it so bad. The political climate is such that people's health have been affected. We have a friend who last year was in great shape. Now she's developed high blood pressure and insomnia. We had dinner with her and her husband and midway through the meal she brought up Donald Trump and the Republicans and almost lost it. And even though my wife is a liberal Democrat (I'm a Libertarian), she was astonished at the raw hatred our friend displayed. It was so visceral and intense that we worry about her health.
My wife's a Democrat, as I said, but she couldn't bring herself to vote for Hillary. But what bothered her the most was the double standard our friend displayed. My wife liked Bernie, yet our friend felt people like my wife (not to mention ME) paved the way for Donald Trump getting into office. So what that Hillary screwed Bernie? After she skizzled him out of the race what was needed was healing! Bernie knew he'd been screwed, but he played ball. And so what that she called Donna Brazile a "brain dead water buffalo!" All Hillary's crimes and indiscretions are old news. What we need is to get Trump out of office! He's a menace and will get us into nuclear war!
That's how she sees it.
I think the problem comes when these people begin believing their own propaganda. They're so used to winning that when Trump won the election, they couldn't handle it. As a libertarian, I've been critical of Trump's decision to send more troops into Afghanistan and Iraq. I oppose going to war against a country, then building it up after we defeat it. In the case of Europe and Japan after the second world war, I can see it, though I believe MacArthur's approach in Japan was vastly superior to Marshall's plan in Europe. But now we're spending massive amounts of money in moving troops into hostile areas, bombing it to rubble, then rebuilding it. It's insanity.
So yes, politics have polarized the country, and we have huge groups of millennials who are voting on two issues -- getting free birth control meds and abortion.
This holiday season will be the second since last year's election. I fully expect there to be more than a few heated discussions.
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Fasten Your Seatbelts - The Crazy Has Started (Also, bring the Koolaid)
by berrygerry infrom facebook:just saw my jw mother after not seeing her for more than 2 years.
when i do see her, it is brief, she never asks about my life, doesn't ask about my 4 children her grandchildren, doesn't ask about my grandchildren...her great grandchildren, she doesn't ask about my other 2 brothers that she is also alienated from, she doesn't ask about my brothers family.
she doesn't talk about the jw/org either.
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Cold Steel
Wait...the guy does have a point. Why would Satan be wasting his time on the Jehovah's Witness organization if they didn't have the truth? None of you guys can explain that one! First of all, I've come to respect people who type in all caps. It shows resolve of purpose, a steadiness of spiritual gait. And you have to admit it, Ol' Nick does seem to have it in for JWs. Even worldly unbelievers don't reflect as much hatred towards JWs as apostates, so again, this guy has you there. You guys are all apostates, whilst I'm an unbeliever. And you're a lot worse than I am.
So why do I have to suffer the same fate? Doesn't seem quite right. And if fire started falling from heaven, all you guys would immediately "think" Armageddon, even if it was nothing more than a rather large comet entering the atmosphere three times the speed of the fastest bullet.
If you guys end up being wrong, what are YOU going to think when Armageddon hits at 3:38 p.m. GMT on January 7, 2018? Your last thought would be, "Oh, my God, I was sooooo wron...." and then you're gone. Nothing more. Your very existence would be snuffed out! But so would mine. If you guys are worse, why do I have to suffer the same fate? Maybe I'll get a second chance due to my disarmingly good looks and pure spirit.
It might happen.
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John's Two Witnesses...Who Are/Were They?
by Cold Steel indo the scripture writers at hq allow for any scriptural exegesis that recognizes the state of israel as fulfillment of ancient prophecy?
isaiah, for example, writes: .
and it shall come to pass in that day, that the lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from assyria, and from egypt, and from pathros, and from cush, and from elam, and from shinar, and from hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
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Cold Steel
I've never been a JW, but I have family who are. They stopped talking to us years ago and I first came here to find out why. Since then, I've studied many of their doctrines and, of course, I don't abide by them.
To refute the above arguments, I would have to go back and study them and just don't have the time. I am fairly well read on Greek and Roman history and I know that Alexander built a causeway to the island portion of Tyre and he did a fairly good job of decimating the city during his campaign. (The causeway is still there.) The debate is between those who believe in biblical prophecy and those who don't, and those involved in apologetics defend Ezekiel's prophecies while those who don't believe the prophecies try to show they were not fulfilled.
If Ezekiel's prophecies are, on their face, false, one wonders why the Jews view Ezekiel as one of their greatest prophets. Ezekiel is known for many prophecies that came to pass. Since Tyre is considered his greatest bust, I decided to address that one. One apologist, G. Smith, dissected the Tyrian prophecy and came up with what I think is a reasonable response. See his articles, PART 2 and PART 3. Tyre was once a great, magnificent Phonetician city which existed both in the mainland and on an island. Ezekiel was correct that there were many nations that came against it from Babylon to the Medes and Persians to the Greeks and others. Ezekiel said it would be a place where fishermen would spread their nets, meaning it would be a fishing community. But it also was a site for those who wished to see the ruins of its buildings and walls. To say no one would live on the island portion is a stretch.
DeeGee posted a number of pages, the stated purpose of which was to discredit the Bible. In just one example, author Ferrell Till stated, "The next verse says that no human foot or animal foot would pass through it for 40 years." So we go to the scripture he cites and it states, "I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries." (Ezekiel 29:12) By attempting to force a strained interpretation on the scriptures, where "desolation" means "no human foot or animal foot would pass through it," one can prove whatever one wishes. Bible commentator John Gill addresses this chapter and comes to the alternate conclusion that, "The utter destruction of which, with the rest of Egypt prophesied of, appears to have been fulfilled." It all depends on what one hopes to prove. But answering Till point to point would be time consuming and futile. Again, one doubts the Jews would count an obviously false prophet as one of their greats.
My belief as a Christian is that the Bible is NOT without error. Obviously Nebonidus was the king who went mad for seven years because he left a record of it. But the Bible erroneously states it was Nebuchadnezzar. The fact that Nebonidus went mad in fulfillment of the Lord's dictum shows that the prophecy was good even if the transcription was not. Also, Belshazzar was the son of Nebonidus, not Nebuchadnezzar, and he was never king. But the story of Daniel's interpretation of the writing on the wall was nevertheless correct, even if Jewish scribes decided to insert the more famous names into Daniel's narrative.
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Casting Out DEMONS
by Cold Steel inif someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
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Cold Steel
Let's forget about psychotics. Let's just talk about people who aren't psychotic.
What of them? Even if someone is cured of their psychosis, I wouldn't trust them to tell me the truth.
Neither of my two friends were psychotic. Both are people I would have trusted my life with. If they tell me these things happened, I take them at their word, just as if they'd witnessed a traffic accident. Because I've lived in homes that are more than single-level dwellings, I know what it sounds like to hear someone upstairs walking around over me. And when I hear footsteps, I dang well know someone is up there.
But what if there isn't? What could explain someone hearing the sound of a large chest of drawers falling over and making enough of a sound that you'd go get a gun? To say everyone who's experienced this sort of thing, or who's seen a UFO the size of a football field flying overhead (including several police officers), are psychotic is denial. Again, if these things are real (whether you want to call them demons or evil spirits, ghosts, whatever), then they need to be explained. And yes, I believe their existence implies there's a God. But if you don't believe in God, you should also be open-minded enough to accept that their might be alternative explanations that lie outside of the human psyche.
These type of phenomena have been around for centuries and are not affected by the various developments in photography. What about the news team that visited the house and were pinched, touched and videotaped a door closing by itself? No one explanation will apply to everyone.
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Casting Out DEMONS
by Cold Steel inif someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
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Cold Steel
One then wonders why they appear as ghosts or evil entities. Why not come across as non-threatening? Why the laughing, threatening hostility?
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Casting Out DEMONS
by Cold Steel inif someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
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Cold Steel
DeeGee » If demons are real then why is it that when persons are cured of their psychotic symptoms they don't continue to see demons and/or have encounters with them? Why did the demons disappear?
Because they're psychotic. If demons, evil spirits, ghosts don't exist, why do people who aren't psychotic continue to see them? Why do entire families see and hear them?
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Do they even realise how disgustingly immoral this is and how badly it reflects on the God they worship?
by doubtfull1799 infound this little gem when going through the daily texts.... so let me get this straight.... god knows your suffering really badly and wants to help.
he knows you feel like you're at your limit, but he also knows that you are not really - that you can handle some more suffering.
so instead of helping, he "patiently" waits till you are at your absolute limit, and only then does he help!?.
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Cold Steel
It goes to what the purpose of life is.
Why are we here? Where did we come from? Religion attempts to answer this regardless of what it is. The religion that terrifies me more than any other is reincarnation. Once is enough for me to go around this merry-go-round. I knew a guy who thinks he's the reincarnation of Thomas Andrews, the designer of the Titanic. He grew up asking about aunts and uncles he never had, drawing pictures of a great ship with little boats in the water. As an adult he went to a hypnotherapist who specialized in past life regressions. He remembers thinking, "This is never going to work," and then he went under. He began speaking in a Scotch-Irish brogue and he later marketed the tapes. It was like listening to someone telling the story of his life. The family of Mr. Andrews, who perished on board the ship he designed, is not happy about this fellow. I've listened to his tapes a dozen times just for entertainment and wondered how he could have such experiences. But in one story, Andrews reports a verbal exchange with two other men, then leaves. Then he continues the story with what the men said after he left. How could someone "remember" a conversation he was not present to hear? Still, he spoke of his first car, the woman he married; he complained she was more interested in his car than in him (their first date was a ride in the car). He talked about being a kid, keeping bees, playing soccer; of being a mid-line manager, learning about steels. He talked about his dad, a constable and a religious man who had no toleration for alcohol. I wondered, where do people come up with that stuff.
When I talked to him, he told me he had memories, some vague, some more vivid. For example, he says he remembers vividly standing of scaffolds overlooking the twin ships Titanic and Olympic. I have no theories as to how these memories got into his head. He said he was punished as a child. Once, in school, he said he was caught staring out into a lake choked with ice near his school. He said the teacher dragged him from the room while he told her and the students to "stop millin' about and get into the little boats!"
Very strange. Don't know if the tapes or CDs are still available, but they used to be available from Amazon.